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Welcome to the home of Alliance Avalon on Evony Server 5. Total domination awaits!
We are now at war with Totalwar.

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 To People of Avalon from TotalWar

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Dirkstein
Peasant
Peasant


Posts : 3
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: To People of Avalon from TotalWar   Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:59 am

Oh People Of Avalon!

Greetings,


Since day one on Server 5 War/TotalWar had been friends with Avalon! Nothing had come in the way of that relationship. However being a "sister to Avalon" that came with expectations. The expectation was that sister would not fight sister and if there was a problem, that Avalon as the head would intercede and resolve issues between them. This however proved
not to be the case in our experience in TotalWar. In any event, not in timely fashion.

When Sparta, a sister to Avalon started attacking War3, a sister to us, we expected that there would be an effort to resolve that through Avalon. As that both Sparta and we were friends with Avalon, we did not intercede in the battle. In retrospect this was our mistake. As of yesterday, War3 was finished.

We then began to question what the benefit of being a sister to Avalon meant and why Avalon allowed this to happen. False expectations on our part? Perhaps. Yet within sisters there needs to be some platform for dispute resolutions.

We also began to question if Avalon had some ulterior motive in allowing this to happen. Who's side was Avalon on? Did being a sister carry any benefit?

We finally did meet to discuss an end to the war between Sparta and War3. An event where Sparta failed to show up. However TotalWar as representatives for War3 came to an agreement with Avalon. An agreement which depended on the choice of a party unrelated to TotalWar or War3. This person refused to abide by the conditions that TotalWar and Avalon came to agreement on. However since this person was making a personal choice, this was outside the control of either party.

TotalWar met with the diplomat from SPARTA that evening of our meeting. We came to an agreement and an appointment the following day to conclude the conditions of peace and truce. Yet war broke out yet again and the Sparta diplomat failed to even show.

It was our opinion that if Avalon was able to make an agreement with TotalWar in the absence of Sparta, that Avalon placed itself as the head. Totalwar also attributed, rightly or wrongly, the continuation of the war to Avalon.

This created an atmosphere of distrust and questioning of motivations. Mech and I had after 2 weeks, reached a stage of diplomatic exhaustion. If you don't know what diplomatic exhaustion is try being a diplomat for a couple of weeks during a conflict.

These were the factors which lead to what may appear to be an "unprovoked attack" on Avalon. What happened is the Morning Boss at TotalWar distributed a mass mail claiming that Avalon had invaded
Burgundy, complete with the lords names, locations and reporting person in the area. Based on that mass mail, Avalon was declared Hostile and action was taken against those targets. TotalWar did not go and invade Friesland, rather this was what we felt was a necessary defensive action from what was perceived as a hostile action by Avalon against TotalWar.

On the Avalon side of the fence, this would appear however to be a totally unprovoked attack on the part of TotalWar against Avalon.

It is only when you have lived in our shoes that you can understand the actions taken against Avalon by TotalWar. By the same token, it is only when you live in the same shoes, that TotalWar can see the position of Avalon. TotalWar and Avalon met today to attempt to resolve the conflict. This turned out to what seemed to be a three hour chat to nowhere. Once again, diplomatic exhaustion set in.

One of the issues that repeatedly came up was that Avalon members were pissed off and some would not be in acceptance of a peace deal and a return of friendly statue between the two parties. After Avalon's raiding of TotalWar resource properties, let me assure you the same feelings of resentment will be had on the side of TotalWar.

The war has now entered into the stage of a stalemate tit for tat, with Avalon raiding TotalWar resources and TotalWar raiding Avalon. Frustrations are taken out on world chat. The one thing that TotalWar and Avalon can agree on is this weakens both parties and make them both subject to being perceived as weakened and subject to an opportunist organization taking advantage of that perceived weakness.

Both TotalWar and Avalon know of parties in existence that are ready to capitalize on this situation that has now turned into an Afghanistan like quagmire. As such, it is to the benefit of both parties that we resolve this situation as quickly as possible so that we can prepare ourselves for the real war that is to come. The existence of both of us requires that we be ready, willing and able to fight of these threats and come to the aid of one another.

The question then becomes one of "Can Avalon and TotalWar return to friendship status?" If so, it is going to take time to gain and rebuild trust. This is something that is not going to happen in a day. Both sides are going to take time to heal.

The forgoing having been said, I believe that it is advantageous to both Avalon and TotalWar to try to mend this situation and start preparing for the forces that will be arrayed against us both and I should include Kings in this as well. If we do not, it will likely be the downfall of us both. This means that everything you have invested in the game to date will
be lost.

In the event Avalon and TotalWar are able to come to terms, it should be done as expeditiously as possible. TotalWar is not interested in three hour chats to nowhere. If we can get down to business, let's do it. Set the terms and conditions on which we can both agree. Let's not agree to waste each others time.

It is my desire that the above enlighten the members of Avalon as to how we came to the point in which we find ourselves today. Undoubtedly for some, any amount of explanation is irrelevant. One thing I do know is this. That if Avalon and TotalWar are to have a future together, it is going to take lots of work and nurturing from both sides.

Regards,

Dirkstein - Vice Host of TotalWar
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Hypatia
Baron
Baron


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Join date : 2009-09-05
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: To People of Avalon from TotalWar   Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:14 am

Dirkstein - Vice Host of TotalWar has made a nice explanation.


Basically, the war was started in error, and that error was admittedly on the part of TotalWAR.
However, most all wars are started that way, as a result of stupidity and error.


When Sparta, a sister to Avalon started attacking War3, a sister to TotalWAR, Avalon and the rest of the Avalon sisters stayed out of it, and let these two seemingly equal matched little sisters to their own War efforts, while making use of whatever diplomatic leverage that could be exerted. When War3 attacked Exia the incident was brought to diplomatic channels and Exia did not use the situation for an excuse to retaliate, nor did Avalon.

Avalon members intruded into Total War controlled areas, but with the clear intent to deal with another alliance who had become a pest to both.

However, when War3 lost to Sparta, then TotalWAR dove in and declared on Avalon.
This looks very much like a revenge effort.



And Dirkstein - Vice Host of TotalWar did not call a truce and sort out the issue diplomatically as soon as he came on line that first day of war. He did not drop out of TW and apply to become a member of Avalon. He stayed with his Alliance and their silly decision.


Hypatia

Note, & Disclaimer – the above are just my own thoughts and is in no way authorized or necessarily subscribed to by others (esp. management) in the Avalon sisterhood.
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Dac
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PostSubject: Other Forces   Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:03 pm

So who are these other alliances trying to take us down then that Direkstein alludes to??
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Dirkstein
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PostSubject: Re: To People of Avalon from TotalWar   Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:43 am

Hypatia

Your post seems to be designed to elicit a response, so I will give you one...

"And Dirkstein - Vice Host of TotalWar did not call a truce and sort out the issue diplomatically as soon as he came on line that first day of war. He did not drop out of TW and apply to become a member of Avalon. He stayed with his Alliance and their silly decision."

Pardon me but it was I that clicked the hostile button after conferring with our host over the "Avalon Invasion". To think that I would then run away and hide and further, by joining Avalon has to a little over the top. Perhaps you missed it, but diplomatic exhaustion had already set in after several weeks of diplomacy. Besides, TotalWAR is a great alliance made up of great members. There is no need for me to leave.

You conclude that this is a revenge effort on the part of TotalWAR. However it was clearly what we perceived to being a defensive action. The "revenge" part now lays squarely on the shoulders of Avalon.

As I wrote nearly a month ago, the situation had developed into an Afghanistan like quagmire. Unfortunately, Avalon management was not savvy enough to recognize the situation for what it was. It was not TotalWAR that walked away from the negotiation table, it was Avalon that failed to continue talks.

This now brings us to truism time. If you fill your stomach with junk food, there is no room left for good food that is healthful to your body. In the same way, if you waste your resources in a pointless war, there are no resources to conduct wars that are truly beneficial. And yet Avalon has let this simple truism slip by and continues to waste warriors time and efforts and resources in a pointless war. The stupidity now shifts in the other direction.

Now some call it a military tactic, but others are not so sure. It has not gone unnoticed that some Avalon higher ups have blotted the name Avalon off of their fort flags. At TotalWAR we are proud of who we are and stand by our flags with the honor and courage that is backed by our alliance membership.

Dirkstein - Vice Host of TotalWAR
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Hypatia
Baron
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Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: To People of Avalon from TotalWar   Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:53 am

I seem to remember reading
What happened is the Morning Boss at TotalWar distributed a mass mail claiming that Avalon had invaded

I didn't read where that member was identified as Dirkstein, till now.
Be sure the fine members at Total WAR remember who is responsible for their current predicament
, Dirkstein - the one who chose war with a previous friend.


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Dac
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PostSubject: Awesome   Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:26 pm

Personally I think that Dickstein is great. These long diatribes are providing fantastic entertainment, I only wish that he had more time to write.

I appreciate all the people who take this game seriously, friend or foe. So I doff my cap to Dirkstein and can't wait for the next installment. If only this forum was being written on and viewed while this diplomatic exhaustion was taking place than perhaps we could have avoided war.

Now we are at war though at least the game is more interesting. Come on Dickie don't ya think it would have been a bit boring to have the top 10 all in cahoots and ruling server 5 with an Iron fist?
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Dirkstein
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PostSubject: Re: To People of Avalon from TotalWar   Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:39 am

"What happened is the Morning Boss at TotalWar distributed a mass mail claiming that Avalon had invaded

I didn't read where that member was identified as Dirkstein, till now."

If you are looking for the "Morning Boss" that would be Lord Sens. If you somehow misconstrued Morining Boss into "Dirkstein" I would call that a misspin.

All I can say is I have no regrets as I believe that I acted properly given all factors. I believe we both fought a good war but in the end it turned into a colossal wasted effort from both sides. There are wars that have some productive end and then there are those that serve no real purpose other than to waste each others time.

I am still mystified as to what Avalon expects to achieve out of this. Perhaps some day someone will put forth some enlightenment on the matter.

Dirk - Member TotalWar
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